Over the years I've talked one-on-one with about 150 people, in new-hire orientations and in follow-up interviews.
We talk about work. We talk about their last job. We talk about the terrible companies, the good ones, what was hard and what was fun. But what really gets people going is something else: trips, places to hang out, hobbies, restaurants they love, a rough stretch they got through, how they live.
That's when it hits me.
Most people don't actually want to "grind at work." What they want is to tell the story of how their own life moved.
Work, travel, hobbies, a great little restaurant, a hard time: it all lights up the moment it becomes a story.
Work itself, on the other hand, isn't loved all that much. Hardly anyone likes overtime for its own sake. And I've never really met anyone whose life goal is simply being busy.
But in the end: It turned out to be fun. I got to try a lot of things. It was rough, but I learned from it. I was lucky with the people around me. That company was a disaster, but it gave me a yardstick for judging jobs now. Something went wrong on that trip, but looking back, it's funny. That place had amazing food. You should go there.
Stories like these move people.
In this article I want to sort out what I've seen in orientations, interviews and small talk: people don't want to work, they want to tell the story of how their life moved.
1. After about 150 people, I've met very few who want to grind through overtime
In orientations and interviews, I get to see all kinds of people.
Some are young. Some are mid-career hires. Some are older than me. Some had a really hard time at their last job. Some talk about their family. Some suddenly brighten up when we get onto travel or hobbies.
Among them, I rarely meet anyone whose basic setting is "I want to throw myself into work."
Of course, there are people who want to do well at their jobs. Some are serious. Some have a strong sense of responsibility. Some want results. Some have done a lot at their previous companies.
But that usually isn't "I love labor itself." It tends to come out like this:
- It turned out to be fun
- I got a lot of experience
- They trusted me with real responsibility
- I was lucky with the people
- I could think and act on my own
- It was tough, but it became the backbone of who I am now
- My failures and the things that felt off at my last company taught me how to look at companies
In other words, satisfaction at work is less about the amount of work and more about whether the experience turned into a story.
Gallup's data on Japan says only 8% of employees in Japan are engaged at work, compared with an East Asia average of 18% and a global average of 20%.[^gallup-japan] Of course, one number can't tell you how any individual feels about work. Still, the assumption that "most people are passionate about their jobs" looks pretty shaky in Japan.
That matches what I see in person.
People don't hate work entirely. But they aren't wildly enthusiastic about labor itself either.
What they want, I think, isn't labor. It's the feeling that their life moved.
2. Why trips, hobbies, restaurants and hard times get people talking more than work does
Talking about work always comes with a bit of caution.
Mention your last job, and it might sound like complaining. Explain why you quit, and you might get judged. Criticize a company, and you might come across as difficult. Share your views on work, and you might sound preachy. There's also a sense that your competence, or lack of it, is being watched.
So conversations about work tend to feel a bit like a job interview.
Talking about trips, restaurants and hobbies is lighter.
"Where did you go?" "Was it fun there?" "What did you eat?" "Is that place any good?" "What do you do on your days off?"
There's very little feeling of being evaluated in questions like these.
Travel mishaps are easy to talk about. Hits and misses when choosing a restaurant are easy to talk about. And when people talk about hobbies, their real selves come out more than they do when talking about work.
On top of that, trips, restaurants and hobbies come with a story shape built in.
We went. We got lost. We ate. We got tired. We messed up. But it was fun. We want to go again. We want to tell others about it.
That flow makes a strong story.
Work stories can work the same way.
Not just "I worked," but:
It was hard. I made a call. I dealt with people. I failed. I got through it. It became my own yardstick.
Once it looks like that, work becomes a story too.
3. Work that becomes a story, and work that is just wearing you down
The same overtime can mean completely different things.
"I did 100 hours of overtime." That's it.
On its own, that's just burnout.
But say this:
"During that stretch I ran a big project, pulled in people from all kinds of departments, and it was brutal, but that's where my whole view of work came from."
Now it's a story.
The difference isn't the number of hours.
The difference is whether these things were there:
- My own judgment was involved
- Something changed
- There were other people involved
- I could give the hardship some meaning
- Something stayed with me afterward
- I came away with a yardstick I can use in the next stage of life
When they're there, work becomes experience.
When they're missing, work is just wear and tear.
Changing the rules after the fact. Micromanagement. Meetings with no point. Pushing responsibility onto others. Management for the sake of management. Overtime with no clear purpose. Work you can never reuse. An environment where the system never changes even when people break down.
It's hard to make a story out of these.
Instead of "it was hard, but it meant something," it tends to end up as "I was just ground down."
That's why my own take on work isn't "grind through overtime."
I don't deny hard experiences themselves. But there have to be conditions under which they pay off.
4. People don't want to "work." They want a chapter that means something
I think what many people are after isn't labor itself but a meaningful chapter in their life.
Travel is like that. Hobbies are like that. Romance is like that. Marriage and divorce are like that. Stories about children are like that. Stories about terrible companies and good companies are like that.
All of them become chapters of a life.
"I got married at 20." "I got divorced at 35." "These days my kid and I go out drinking together." "My last company was a mess." "But that's where I learned how to size up a company." "That trip was rough, but it was great." "That cream puff was incredible."
These stories are traces of a life that moved.
People want to talk about those traces.
And listening to them updates the listener's own "life OS," the set of values and rules of thumb they run their life on.
"So that's a way to live, too." "A parent and child can still be close after a divorce?" "That company sounds like trouble." "That restaurant is worth a visit?" "I could copy that place to hang out."
That's how someone else's story becomes material for your own decisions.
5. Small talk where you type notes and dig deeper is a form of learning
While we chat, I type up what the other person says. Then I dig deeper.
That's pretty close to studying.
I'm not just listening. I'm sorting things into categories. I'm looking at the structure. I'm pulling out that person's life OS. I'm collecting the parts I can use in my own life and my own view of work.
The topics I ask about look like this:
- Places to hang out
- Hobbies
- Restaurants they recommend
- Fun places they found on trips
- Hard experiences
- Good companies
- Terrible companies
- What was rough at their last job
- Experiences that turned out well in the end
- How they live
- Views on marriage, divorce and children
- Moments when work felt satisfying
- And the opposite: what they never want to do again
This is not just idle chatter.
It's a local-information database, a labor-market database and a collection of life samples, all in one.
And it's much easier to ask one-on-one.
In a big group, people choose what to say. They worry about being watched. They have to handle the laughs. They have to read how everyone will take it.
One-on-one, I can read the other person's temperature and adjust how deep to go.
"That's interesting." "What exactly was bad about that company?" "Was there a better one, by contrast?" "What's so good about that restaurant?" "Did that experience turn out to be a good thing in the end?"
That way I only pick up as much as the other person wants to share.
I don't use it to evaluate anyone. I don't keep a log of complaints with real names. I don't interrogate. I pick up the hooks the other person offers.
If you hold to those boundaries, it's a pretty healthy way to exchange information.
6. I don't copy anyone's work OS, but I'll copy their hangouts and restaurants right away
What's interesting is that even after hearing all these stories, I don't copy anyone's work OS, meaning their whole approach to working.
"It was hard, but I'm glad I did it." "I did overtime, but it was good experience." "I got to try lots of things and had fun."
Hearing this doesn't make me think, "Right, time to grind through overtime."
That's not because I'm not learning from it. I just don't adopt it.
A work OS is heavy.
Adopting long hours affects time, energy, health, freedom, job changes, your whole life. So even if someone else was satisfied with that, there's no need to copy it as is.
Places to hang out and recommended restaurants, though, I copy right away.
A cream puff. A hot spring. A travel destination. A walking route. A place to eat. A way to spend a day off.
These are cheap to try. If they miss, the loss is small. If they hit, my quality of daily life goes up immediately.
So I can adopt them on the spot.
This is where my own yardstick comes in.
- Does it come out in the black?
- Does it give me more freedom?
- Will it keep my body from breaking down?
- Can it feed back into my quality of daily life?
- Is it knowledge I can reuse?
- Does it help me make decisions for my life OS?
- Will it make a good story?
If it fits, I adopt it. If it doesn't, I just save it as raw material.
That's why seeing 150 people never turned me into a "grind through overtime" person. If anything, the more I see, the clearer it gets that what matters isn't labor itself but stories that end up in the black.
7. Satisfied people aren't talking about work. They're telling a story
When I listen to people who are happy with their work, they're usually telling a story more than describing labor.
"I got to try a lot of things." "I was lucky with the people." "They trusted me with things." "It was hard, but in the end it was fun." "That experience led to where I am now." "Because I struggled at my last company, this one looks pretty decent."
These are stories about how the person changed through work.
JILPT, a Japanese government-affiliated labor research institute, has a report on job satisfaction among young workers. It treats the nature of the work and the sense of purpose, pay, working hours and relationships at work as elements of satisfaction.[^jilpt-satisfaction] In other words, satisfaction at work isn't simply about how long you worked. It comes from a combination of the work itself, a sense of purpose, compensation, relationships and time.
That fits my own sense of it, too.
People aren't satisfied just because they worked long hours. They aren't satisfied just because they did a lot of overtime.
They acted on their own. They connected with someone. They got results. The experience stayed with them. It became a chapter they can talk about later.
That's where the satisfaction comes from.
8. Stories about trips, hobbies and restaurants show you someone's life OS
Stories about trips, hobbies and favorite restaurants may sound light, but they run pretty deep.
Where they go. What they find fun. What they spend money on. What helps them recover. What they recommend to others. What makes them think "I want to go again."
These are the person's values.
Listen to their travel stories and you see how adventurous they are. Listen to their hobbies and you see how they recharge. Ask about their favorite restaurants and you see where they live their daily life, what they like to eat and how well they pick up information. Listen to a hard-times story and you see how they endure and how they find meaning.
Sometimes you see the real person more clearly than you do in a work conversation.
That's because they're not trying to manage how they come across.
At work, people present their best side. But when they talk about a favorite restaurant or a trip, their natural selves come through.
"That place was good." "That one was so-so." "It was packed, but the food was good." "It was rough, but I'd go again."
Their life OS shows up in stories like these.
So asking about restaurants and trips in small talk isn't just killing time. It's a way of seeing how someone spends their life.
9. Stories about "terrible companies" and "good companies" help with job-change decisions
Many new hires have a previous job behind them.
That means they have real examples to compare companies.
They hold information you won't find in a job posting.
- What was terrible about their last company
- Where people broke down
- What got changed after the fact
- What kind of management was hard to take
- And on the flip side, what was good
- What kind of boss made it easier to work
- Which systems actually worked in practice
- What kind of company to avoid
This is very valuable.
When changing jobs, people look at job postings, reviews, interviews and company websites. But concrete stories from someone who actually worked there come at a different level of detail.
And stories about terrible companies tend to be lively.
That's because a terrible company makes a good story.
Still, you have to be careful how you handle this.
Don't keep a log of complaints with real names. Don't use it to evaluate anyone. Only ask about what the other person wants to share. Don't interrogate. Ask in a safe way.
If you stick to these, stories about terrible and good companies become firsthand fieldwork on the labor market.
10. What I want isn't labor. It's a story that comes out in the black
In the end, what I want isn't labor.
What I want is a story that comes out in the black.
"In the black" isn't only about money.
- My quality of daily life goes up
- My freedom grows
- My health is protected
- I understand people better
- I gain a yardstick for decisions
- I gain skills I can reuse
- Work gets standardized
- It becomes an experience I can use in the next stage of life
- It stays with me as a good story
- The list of restaurants I'm glad I visited grows
- The list of people I'm glad I met grows
If things like these remain, the experience is in the black.
On the other hand, if I work overtime, get worn down, nothing remains, I can't reuse any of it, I lose freedom, and my body breaks down, that's in the red.
So hours of labor have no value in themselves. What has value is what remains afterward.
The same goes for travel. The same goes for restaurants. The same goes for relationships. The same goes for work.
When something takes a shape that stays in your life, it becomes a story.
11. Small talk in orientation is fieldwork on people's lives
Orientation is a job of explaining company systems. But it isn't only that.
By standardizing the routine parts and turning them into videos, I reduce the load of the fixed content. That leaves room for small talk.
And in that small talk, you get a glimpse of someone's life.
Places to hang out. Hobbies. Restaurants they recommend. Trips. Hard times. Terrible companies. Good companies. How they live. Marriage. Divorce. Children. Struggles at their last job. What they hope for next.
This is fieldwork on people's lives.
While doing my job, I'm observing how people live. While explaining the company, I'm updating my local-information database. While easing someone's first-day nerves, I'm updating my own life OS.
And the other person benefits, too.
On their first day, they get to talk naturally with someone from the company. Someone remembers what they said in the interview. Someone listens to a bit of their story. The company moves a little closer to the human side.
That's a pretty big win in the black.
12. Summary: people don't want to labor, they want to talk about how their life moved
People don't want to grind at work.
At least, that's how most of them look to me.
What people want to talk about is the traces of a life that moved.
I went on a trip. I found a great restaurant. I have a hobby. It was hard. But it was fun. I got to do a lot at work. My last company was a disaster. I've seen good companies, too. I got married. I got divorced. I reconnected with my kids. That experience made me who I am now.
Stories like these move people.
Work is interesting too, when it becomes a story. But labor that never becomes a story is just wear and tear.
So what we should aim for isn't "working more."
What we should aim for, I think, is more stories that come out in the black.
Daily life gets better. Your life OS gets updated. You get better at reading people. You get better at reading companies. You gain knowledge you can use next. It stays with you as a good story.
Collect experiences like that.
Small talk in orientation is where a huge amount of that raw material drops in.
It looks like we're talking about work, but we're really talking about life. At the entrance of a company, I'm hearing a piece of someone's life. And those stories pile up in my own life OS, too.
People don't want to labor. They want to talk about how their life moved.
That explanation feels right to me.
Ideas for internal links
- Orientation is an event that creates light connections between people
- Small talk updates your database of people
- Job satisfaction comes from turning work into a story, not from hours worked
- Stories about terrible and good companies help with job-change decisions
- You forget faces and names, but you remember the hooks from a conversation
- Why stories about trips, hobbies and restaurants get people talking
- Why I don't become a "grind through overtime" person: I have a yardstick
- A view of work built on increasing stories that come out in the black
References
[^gallup-japan]: Gallup, “State of the Global Workplace: Japan Country-Level Data.” It shows that 8% of employees in Japan are engaged at work, lower than the East Asia average of 18% and the global average of 20%.
https://www.gallup.com/workplace/705794/state-global-workplace-japan-country-level-data.aspx
[^jilpt-satisfaction]: Japan Institute for Labour Policy and Training (JILPT), “Chapter 7: The Structure and Determinants of Job Satisfaction Among Young Workers.” It analyzes young workers' job satisfaction from angles such as the nature of the work and sense of purpose, pay, working hours and workplace relationships.
https://www.jil.go.jp/institute/siryo/2016/documents/0171_07.pdf
